With the renewed interest in Drop Pod armies, we have awakened a controversy between the MSU (Multiple Small Units to put the most pods out) and MB (Max Bodies to cram the biggest unit in the pod). This is good if it makes people think. The advantages and disadvantages have been addressed on Marshal Laeroth's blog here and by Bloodcrusade [url=""]here[/url].
There is agreement on the basics of how a BT Pod list should work and that it is a tricky list to master, but potentially a devastating one since it allows the player to retain the initiative in a game. However, I've been playing one in a number of games and have learned a few lessons that at least apply in my local game, so I've built what I'm callng a Deep Strike list since the non-Pod units outnumber the Pod units.
One of the reasons for why I developed this was that pre-FAQ, the better choices were MM/HF Dreadnoughts and MM/HF Land Speeders. Terminators and Typhoon Speeders were pricey and not so great. However, the Deathwind Missile Launcher on the Pods were fairly nice, giving an ~27” diameter circle of action that would blast 'Nids and Orks as well as having a decent chance against light armor. So Deathwinds backing up the melta weaponry and providing a threat to an opponent's army were a nice to have option.
The FAQ swapped things around to make Typhoon and Cyclone Launchers the same as the Codex version and much deadlier while taking away the AP of the Deathwind to match the Codex one and consequently lowering its viability. The weakening of the Deathwind caused a problem with the Dreadnoughts' relative fragility as medium armor while they were still the primary target in various Pod lists for opponents AT so that I never had a MM Dreadnought survive the next enemy player turn. Correction, I had one survive two turns tied up in CC until a couple of PF squads joined the fray.
The relative usefulness of the Typhoon Speeders vs the relative ineffectiveness of the MM Dreadnoughts had me turn to the other bonus from the FAQ, the Tank Hunting Cyclone Terminators. They have proven their worth in battle to me. Both provide excellent duality with the Terminators having the equivalent of four Lascannon shots per turn vs armor.
The second factor was that a Pod list needs an enemy that is maneuvering to gain advantage of its disunity. Going full drop meant fast lists scattered all over the board, going “flat out” if at all possible to get the cover save. These got to regroup and scatter quickly to any drops since they had virtually free movement. Non-fast lists got to either go into full reserve or set up in a tight castle formation. Getting melta and MM into range of that proved costly. From this, I turned decisively to counting on units that produced a lot of firepower, are resilient and have high threat potential. I can deploy useful units either in reserve for deep strikes or start them on the field. True, lack of Pods makes them a little more prone to a mishap, but with a 48” range, I can keep an eye out to minimize the mishaps. OTOH, the lack of Pods eliminated the KP disadvantages of most Pod lists. The KP on these are equivalent to those of many Mech lists. The 2000 point list actually has one less KP than the 1500 MB list of Bloodcrusade.
From that, I've built the following lists to play with and this seems to be the best way to watch them grow.
1000 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
1 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB)
3 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
2xTH Cyclones, 3x Typhoons, 3x HB
Pretty much 4 AT shots per turn, three fragile and the fourth tough and nasty. The only big problem would be a Land Raider and before you protest about one at this level of points, consider that I could build a fairly nasty list by having a foot Las/Plas Crusder MSU, 3 Typhoons, EC-AACNMTO and LRC w/Blessed and have only spent 731 points. I can cram a huge BP/CCW Crusader squad into that LRC for 269 points. However, this list will hurt the 1000 point lists I've seen.
1500 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/1, Melta, PF, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/0, Melta, PF, Pod-SB)
4 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
4xTH Cyclone, 4x Typhoon, 4xHeavy Bolter and a couple of Power Fists.
Not much of a difference in total firepower, I only added another Terminator squad, another Crusader plus a LS-Typhoon but I've just maxed out my Terminator firepower for the rest of the lists unless I add a Command Terminator Squad at 2500.
1850 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
1 Venerable Dreadnought (TLLC/HF/DCCW, EA, Tank Hunter, Pod-SB)
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
3 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB)
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
5 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
1xTH TL-Lascannon, 4xTH Cyclone, 5x Typhoon, 5x Heavy Bolter
Pricing is a bit tight here, so no Power Fists on the Crusader squads even though I added one more, which is the main reason for the Venerable Dreadnought at this level. I'm leaving this one this way since that Dreadnought is the only one I've actually thought even covered its points.
2000 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
1 Assault Terminator (3xTLC, 2xTH/SS, Furious Charge)
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
1 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
3 Crusader (5/1, Melta, PF, Pod-SB)
6 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
4xTH Cyclone, 6x Typhoon, 6x Heavy Bolter
This is the end all of my deep strike lists. I'm going to run this one, win or lose for a while. My two losses with it I can attribute directly to errors of mine in deployment and even in defeat, it is still hammering away keeping the KP count close. In its one fielding in a five objective battle, it rocked. True, my opponent was running an outflanking 'Nid list and was totally unprepared to face another reserve heavy list, but the devastating results of my being able to concentrate with Pods and teleporting Deep Strike while he was stuck with walking in from the board sides. We called it after turn 5 and IMO, if it had gone on to turn 7 I would have tabled him with the loss of (drumroll)...4 Kill Points.
The downside to this build is that from 1500-2500, the FoC becomes a limiting factor, so to go to 2500 points for 'Ard Boyz causes some difficulty. Right now, I'm fiddling with adding in a Tank hunting Castellan led Terminator Command squad with a pair of Storm Shields and Cyclones and thinking about a C:WH Inq Lord with psyhood to provide my psychic defense (41% chance of stopping any Ld10 psykers and 58% vs. Ld9). No regular command squads since FNP is nice, but either I'm building what is basically a Crusader squad with double melta and FNP that cannot hold objectives or it becomes a point sink that isn't as useful as the Terminator version and it still adds an additional KP.
For me, AACNMTO is the only vow to go with. Witch might be useful, but I don't need the d6” move for what would be starting on the table and what is in reserve doesn't get it. Preferred Enemy makes you more deadly in CC period. Of course, if you can get a charge off, it is all to the good.
Commanders: Don't need them except for over 2000 when my only choices are Heavy Support that cannot deep strike or HQ.
Chaplains: With AACNMTO, don't need them, although I will admit they are useful at the 500 and 750 point levels where I would run a foot or mech list.
Sword Brethren: They actually can be nifty and a bit nasty, but they end up being a point sink and in the end, as you get over 200 points, it is a toss up. Assault Terminators are better, but these guys do get to shoot. For just under 200 points you can get a squad that shoots and will shred any non-dedicated CC unit, although it is lacking in PW.
Dreadnoughts: Forget it. The only one I find useful is the Tank Hunting TLLC Venerable one and he takes up a Terminator slot.
Terminators: Tank Hunting Cyclones. 'Nuff said.
Assault Terminators: I like this better than the Venerable Dread. Keep them in cover and they are a threat and bubble wrap. Even when I've messed up with them, they have sold themselves dearly, tarpitting and at least getting their points back. An enemy cannot ignore them and if you can get them bouncing around in the enemy, they become super threat target and draw all kinds of attention.
Crusaders: Meat and potatoes here. I lean more towards Bolters these days. I get a wider shooting threat range for objective sitters and AAC's Preferred Enemy makes their one attack more deadly if they get charged. I will keep the EC's squad as BP/CCW though.
Typhoon Speeders: Forget the rest of the FA, this is the one you want. Some call for giving some of them MM, but I've noticed they don't have the TH Cyclone Terminators that I'm running. I have ~15% chance of getting a kill in a unit shot and ~30% of a good result (weapon destroyed or immobilized). IMO, running more than two per squadron is a mistake. With three of them, they just become too attractive as a target, but with a pair, there is potentially wasted firepower that could be hammering on the more deadly Terminators.
There is agreement on the basics of how a BT Pod list should work and that it is a tricky list to master, but potentially a devastating one since it allows the player to retain the initiative in a game. However, I've been playing one in a number of games and have learned a few lessons that at least apply in my local game, so I've built what I'm callng a Deep Strike list since the non-Pod units outnumber the Pod units.
One of the reasons for why I developed this was that pre-FAQ, the better choices were MM/HF Dreadnoughts and MM/HF Land Speeders. Terminators and Typhoon Speeders were pricey and not so great. However, the Deathwind Missile Launcher on the Pods were fairly nice, giving an ~27” diameter circle of action that would blast 'Nids and Orks as well as having a decent chance against light armor. So Deathwinds backing up the melta weaponry and providing a threat to an opponent's army were a nice to have option.
The FAQ swapped things around to make Typhoon and Cyclone Launchers the same as the Codex version and much deadlier while taking away the AP of the Deathwind to match the Codex one and consequently lowering its viability. The weakening of the Deathwind caused a problem with the Dreadnoughts' relative fragility as medium armor while they were still the primary target in various Pod lists for opponents AT so that I never had a MM Dreadnought survive the next enemy player turn. Correction, I had one survive two turns tied up in CC until a couple of PF squads joined the fray.
The relative usefulness of the Typhoon Speeders vs the relative ineffectiveness of the MM Dreadnoughts had me turn to the other bonus from the FAQ, the Tank Hunting Cyclone Terminators. They have proven their worth in battle to me. Both provide excellent duality with the Terminators having the equivalent of four Lascannon shots per turn vs armor.
The second factor was that a Pod list needs an enemy that is maneuvering to gain advantage of its disunity. Going full drop meant fast lists scattered all over the board, going “flat out” if at all possible to get the cover save. These got to regroup and scatter quickly to any drops since they had virtually free movement. Non-fast lists got to either go into full reserve or set up in a tight castle formation. Getting melta and MM into range of that proved costly. From this, I turned decisively to counting on units that produced a lot of firepower, are resilient and have high threat potential. I can deploy useful units either in reserve for deep strikes or start them on the field. True, lack of Pods makes them a little more prone to a mishap, but with a 48” range, I can keep an eye out to minimize the mishaps. OTOH, the lack of Pods eliminated the KP disadvantages of most Pod lists. The KP on these are equivalent to those of many Mech lists. The 2000 point list actually has one less KP than the 1500 MB list of Bloodcrusade.
From that, I've built the following lists to play with and this seems to be the best way to watch them grow.
1000 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
1 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB)
3 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
2xTH Cyclones, 3x Typhoons, 3x HB
Pretty much 4 AT shots per turn, three fragile and the fourth tough and nasty. The only big problem would be a Land Raider and before you protest about one at this level of points, consider that I could build a fairly nasty list by having a foot Las/Plas Crusder MSU, 3 Typhoons, EC-AACNMTO and LRC w/Blessed and have only spent 731 points. I can cram a huge BP/CCW Crusader squad into that LRC for 269 points. However, this list will hurt the 1000 point lists I've seen.
1500 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/1, Melta, PF, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/0, Melta, PF, Pod-SB)
4 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
4xTH Cyclone, 4x Typhoon, 4xHeavy Bolter and a couple of Power Fists.
Not much of a difference in total firepower, I only added another Terminator squad, another Crusader plus a LS-Typhoon but I've just maxed out my Terminator firepower for the rest of the lists unless I add a Command Terminator Squad at 2500.
1850 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
1 Venerable Dreadnought (TLLC/HF/DCCW, EA, Tank Hunter, Pod-SB)
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
3 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB)
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
5 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
1xTH TL-Lascannon, 4xTH Cyclone, 5x Typhoon, 5x Heavy Bolter
Pricing is a bit tight here, so no Power Fists on the Crusader squads even though I added one more, which is the main reason for the Venerable Dreadnought at this level. I'm leaving this one this way since that Dreadnought is the only one I've actually thought even covered its points.
2000 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
1 Assault Terminator (3xTLC, 2xTH/SS, Furious Charge)
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter)
1 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB)
1 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB)
3 Crusader (5/1, Melta, PF, Pod-SB)
6 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML)
4xTH Cyclone, 6x Typhoon, 6x Heavy Bolter
This is the end all of my deep strike lists. I'm going to run this one, win or lose for a while. My two losses with it I can attribute directly to errors of mine in deployment and even in defeat, it is still hammering away keeping the KP count close. In its one fielding in a five objective battle, it rocked. True, my opponent was running an outflanking 'Nid list and was totally unprepared to face another reserve heavy list, but the devastating results of my being able to concentrate with Pods and teleporting Deep Strike while he was stuck with walking in from the board sides. We called it after turn 5 and IMO, if it had gone on to turn 7 I would have tabled him with the loss of (drumroll)...4 Kill Points.
The downside to this build is that from 1500-2500, the FoC becomes a limiting factor, so to go to 2500 points for 'Ard Boyz causes some difficulty. Right now, I'm fiddling with adding in a Tank hunting Castellan led Terminator Command squad with a pair of Storm Shields and Cyclones and thinking about a C:WH Inq Lord with psyhood to provide my psychic defense (41% chance of stopping any Ld10 psykers and 58% vs. Ld9). No regular command squads since FNP is nice, but either I'm building what is basically a Crusader squad with double melta and FNP that cannot hold objectives or it becomes a point sink that isn't as useful as the Terminator version and it still adds an additional KP.
For me, AACNMTO is the only vow to go with. Witch might be useful, but I don't need the d6” move for what would be starting on the table and what is in reserve doesn't get it. Preferred Enemy makes you more deadly in CC period. Of course, if you can get a charge off, it is all to the good.
Commanders: Don't need them except for over 2000 when my only choices are Heavy Support that cannot deep strike or HQ.
Chaplains: With AACNMTO, don't need them, although I will admit they are useful at the 500 and 750 point levels where I would run a foot or mech list.
Sword Brethren: They actually can be nifty and a bit nasty, but they end up being a point sink and in the end, as you get over 200 points, it is a toss up. Assault Terminators are better, but these guys do get to shoot. For just under 200 points you can get a squad that shoots and will shred any non-dedicated CC unit, although it is lacking in PW.
Dreadnoughts: Forget it. The only one I find useful is the Tank Hunting TLLC Venerable one and he takes up a Terminator slot.
Terminators: Tank Hunting Cyclones. 'Nuff said.
Assault Terminators: I like this better than the Venerable Dread. Keep them in cover and they are a threat and bubble wrap. Even when I've messed up with them, they have sold themselves dearly, tarpitting and at least getting their points back. An enemy cannot ignore them and if you can get them bouncing around in the enemy, they become super threat target and draw all kinds of attention.
Crusaders: Meat and potatoes here. I lean more towards Bolters these days. I get a wider shooting threat range for objective sitters and AAC's Preferred Enemy makes their one attack more deadly if they get charged. I will keep the EC's squad as BP/CCW though.
Typhoon Speeders: Forget the rest of the FA, this is the one you want. Some call for giving some of them MM, but I've noticed they don't have the TH Cyclone Terminators that I'm running. I have ~15% chance of getting a kill in a unit shot and ~30% of a good result (weapon destroyed or immobilized). IMO, running more than two per squadron is a mistake. With three of them, they just become too attractive as a target, but with a pair, there is potentially wasted firepower that could be hammering on the more deadly Terminators.