List Prep: 1850 Points

12/24/2011

Next thing on my agenda is Coastal Assault. Four rounds, 1850 points, using the INAT FAQ.

I realized that I haven't played my 1850 point list for over six months and I know I've learned a few things since then, so I thought I might as well take a look at it and tweak a few things so I can get a few practice games in. Especially not in my usual laid back "learning mode" manner.

This is the current list
1850 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds [140]
1 Venerable Dreadnought (TLLC/HF/DCCW, XA, Tank Hunter, Pod-SB) [200]
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter) [540]
3 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB) [360]
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB) [260]
5 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML) [350]

1xTH TL-Lascannon, 4xTH Cyclone, 5x Typhoon, 5x Heavy Bolter

NOTE: In general, the last (or one of the last) Crusader squad is armed with BP/CCW and goes with the EC. The rest have Bolters.

Comparing it to my 2k list, I have just as many Crusader squads, but culled 65 points in PF & Neophytes, plus one LS-Typhoon and turned my Assault Terminators into a Ven Dread in a Pod. Heh, what is actually funny is I built this up from the bottom when I was building it. This list works fairly well for me and is the only configuration that I've found a Dreadnought more than a one turn wonder and usually I drop his Pod empty. It actually has one more long range AT shot than my 2k list, although it gives up some of the CC threat. The main thing bothering me is I don't have a few PF sprinkled about and even though they are useful, they are also usually not that important, but when you need one, you need it really, really,reallybad.

Looking at this, I don't really need five Crusader squads. I like using the one troop per 500 points rule and then adding one so I definitely have a spare suicide melta unit. However, I'm fairly sure I can get away with only four Crusader squads. So, if I cash one of the cheap ones in, I have an extra 120 points, which I can use to buy back 1xLS-Typhoon and then add in some combination of PF & Neophytes in the remaining squads. Say two PF and five Neophytes. (Well, I could go with three Neophytes and pop a DML on the Dreadnought's Drop Pod for fun).

1850 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds [140]
1 Venerable Dreadnought (TLLC/HF/DCCW, XA, Tank Hunter, Pod-SB) [200]
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter) [540]
2 Crusader (5/1, Melta, Pod-SB) [260]
1 Crusader (5/1, Melta, PF, Pod-SB) [145]
1 Crusader (5/2, Melta, PF, Pod-SB) [155]
6 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML) [420]

1xTH TL-Lascannon, 4xTH Cyclone, 6x Typhoon, 6x Heavy Bolter

That looks a bit better to me. Little bit more dakka and some of the ablative hits I've found useful in games, plus a couple of Power Fists, just in case. Although that is a lot of Neophytes and so let me look at actually scaling back from a 2k list.

1850 points:
1 Emperor's Champion – Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds [140]
1 Assault Terminator (3xTLC, 2xTH/SS, Furious Charge) [215]
2 Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 2xSB/PF, 1xSB/CF, Tank Hunter) [540]
1 Crusader (5/0, Melta, Pod-SB) [120]
2 Crusader (5/0, Melta, PF, Pod-SB) [270]
1 Crusader (5/1, Melta, PF, Pod-SB) [145]
6 Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML) [420]

4xTH Cyclone, 6x Typhoon, 6x Heavy Bolter
Okay, just pulled one Crusader squad and pared down three Neophytes out of the others to maintain the CC threat of the Assault Terminators.

Comparing the two new versions, one has that extra bit of dakka with the Dreadnought as the designated tarpit unit and ablative hits in the Crusader squads. The other maintains that deadly (and much more durable) CC threat unit that are Black Templar Assault Terminators. I'm leaning both ways on this right now because I've had success both ways. The biggest reason I can think to lean towards the Dreadnought list is because that effective S10 Lascannon vs AV. in high mobility lists can be real useful. OTOH, with the A. Terms, I don't care about heavy CC lists, because even when they go down, that squad guts whatever hits them.

The Dreadnought list is a bit more "reliable" vs high mobility lists and ranged damage output, but can suck wind against dedicated CC lists. The A. Term list is about as "reliable", but introduces the random factor of whether or not the A. Terms can get stuck in. Of course, when they do get stuck in, stuff gets smashed.

Any thoughts?

2 Comments

Devjon link

12/24/2011 04:39:24 am

Personally I prefer the Dreadnought list for two reasons:

The first is that I'm not sure that between your Terminators and your Dreadnought you will have too much trouble against anything that can't already take on your Assault Terminators. Sure, your Terminators will mostly take a Close Combat unit with them, but you're just trading off that for greater ability to kill stuff at range.

The second is that I'm gradually warming to the theory that Assaults in 40k don't work effectively. Not just that shooting is generally better, but that focusing on Close Combat for certain units is the wrong way to go about to give yourself a good start. Again, it's a gradual warming so I don't really have much definitively, but if given the choice I would go with the Dreadnought list (though I would exchange the Lascannon for either a Multi-Melta or an Assault Cannon to save points).

Algesan link

12/26/2011 09:36:21 am

The only thing I can see that saves my TLLC Dreadnought when I field it is the 48" range. I've only had one game where it survived until the end of the game and that was playing the original 1850 list vs DE. Of course, that is the one where he performed like a fluff monster. Shrugging off hits (bad pen rolls), blasting skimmers at long range, flamering down a squad of CC guys (Whyches?), smashing down the Archon in CC then blasting the last Ravager (?, triple Dark Lance gunship). Otherwise, it is a couple of rounds of shooting, maybe some flamer fun and death from whatever AT gets in close. The only vehicle target that cannot run away makes everybody go after it ASAP. Local meta? Not having three of them available? Probably not that, the last two games I played with triple MM/HF Dreadnoughts ended up with one turn of shooting the turn they dropped and then they died.

Yes, lots of times the A Terms end up a distraction unit, soaking up firepower and getting out maneuvered (which is why I'm DS'ing them in more often), but they are a threat that must be respected since they can slaughter anything. Infantry, vehicles, MCs, doesn't matter. It all dies. Of course, if my opponent lets me get stuck in with them...

Remember the key difference: I don't have a rock CC unit to win the game for me as it seems most people do. I have a big rock unit to provide a distraction from my firepower. I don't depend on them doing anything but dying under fire or smashing my opponent's CC capability.

List Prep: 1850 Points

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